EFTPS will require multi-factor Authentication

[PATAX]

Apparently effective October 19th multi-factor authentication will be required when accessing EFTPS to make payments for our clients. Apparently when we log on to the site we will be prompted to register and or authenticate with either login.gov or id.me. I don't think I've ever used id.me. I don't have zoom or a camera on my computer. Hopefully I won't have any issues with this nonsense. If anyone has any information I would appreciate it. Thank you

[IRonMaN]

Sounds like some extra fun coming up 😁

[abctax55]

@PATAX  Do you have a phone with a camera?  You can use that to take a picture to upload for id.me.  

I did (& I only have a 'not stupid' semi-smart Samsung, no I-phone for me) - it wasn't exactly pretty, but it worked.

[PATAX]

Thanks I have a Samsung also with a camera on it. Hopefully everything will work out. Also there is a phone number apparently that people can use to make the deposit over the phone 1-800-555-3453. I hope I don't have to use that. I'm going to call the clients up that I make weekly deposits for and tell them if I have problems then they're going to have to start doing it themselves. I don't need this nonsense, as I'm ready to quit anyways.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

W-2 submission for the SSA also requires that additional step.  I went through the ID.ME sign up when I first discovered that.  It can be kind of tricky but I got it to work.  I bet more and more sites wiill require that addtional step as time goes on.  

[abctax55]

AND.... where'd ya' here/see this?  It's news to me, but then I've been head-down the last two weeks trying to meet yesterday's deadline.  You know, that deadline that just got pushed back again 😉

[PATAX]

@abctax55 I received that information in an email this morning from The National Society of Tax Professionals. The NSTP. What is funny is that they started it off with: ICYMI. Yes I don't remember hearing about this before.

[abctax55]

@PATAX - send them Heidi's picture 🙂

Calling in the deposits isn't awful, once you get the rhythm of the prompts.  But it does take a bit more time than doing it on-line. 

[Jim-from-Ohio]

from eftps.gov:

Notice to Website users:

• What is happening?
  Fiscal Service is requiring Multifactor Authentication (MFA) for system access. The new authentication process supports Executive Order 14028, requiring all federal agency applications to implement MFA. This will provide an additional layer of security, protecting against unauthorized access threats. EFTPS is partnering with third-party credential service providers Login.gov and ID.me for MFA services.
• When is it happening?
  Secure sign-in via Login.gov or ID.me will be required on October 19, 2023.
• How do I register?
  Upon logging in to this site, you will be prompted to register and/or authenticate with either Login.gov or ID.me, prior to the normal process of inputting your EIN or SSN, PIN, and password.
• Where can I go for help?
  For assistance with Login.gov please call the Login.gov help desk at (844) 875-6446.
  For assistance with ID.me visit help.ID.me.

Please note: Your tax payment is due regardless of this Web site's availability. You can always make a tax payment by calling our voice response system at 1.800.555.3453. Follow the prompts to make your payment.

[PATAX]

@Jim-from-Ohio thanks that was the same information in the email from the NSTP.

[JRC]

I didn't need the ID.ME for BSO Account yet.

I have been able to login thru my SS Account which I had to connect to my BSO account. 

[dascpa]

Question - for those of us logging into the client's EFTPS will we have an issue as we're not the taxpayer?

[JRC]

The New Requirement is posted on the EFTPS site as soon as you log in..  How many clients asked me about this? NONE!!  Prepare for the Calls we will be getting or making to those who make their own deposits.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

I do payroll for a number of clients.. I set it up so each one has a separate EFTPS log in so I am hoping it still works that way. 

[PATAX]

@dascpa that is exactly the question I am asking. I have clients that were registered so long ago. This is just amazing that they are making us do this. I can understand if we were receiving a refund from this, but this is a one-way Street, we are sending them money.

[PATAX]

@Jim-from-Ohio that is the way I have it set up too. Each client has their own pin and password.

[JRC]

Like who's going to log in to my account and pay my Taxes for me?  Unless they figure out a way to apply for a Refund from those same tax accounts?  Hmmmmm...

[jeffmcpa2010]

I made the decision LONG AGO that I was never going to be responsible for actually making any client payments.

Don't want the hassle and don't want the liability of screwing it up. If they can't make their own payments to the IRS they can move on.

[IRonMaN]

Many years ago I inherited a law firm client from my former partner.  We did payroll for the client.  No big deal doing the regular payroll, but after a large settlement, bonuses would get paid out and I would break out in a cold sweat when I was clicking in the numbers over the phone to make those tax deposits.  The client retired a few years back and I sleep better at night not having to worry about screwing up those deposits.😰

[PATAX]

Here is something else that was in that NSTP email: "Effective October 19th, multi-factor authentication will be required when accessing EFTPS. This may present an issue for those accessing EFTPS on behalf of their clients to initiate tax payments. The IRS is aware of the issue and it has been elevated for review. However, no solution has yet to be provided." I think the statements speak for themselves. SMH.

[dascpa]

Government at it's finest.

[rbynaker]

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@PATAX wrote:

Also there is a phone number apparently that people can use to make the deposit over the phone 1-800-555-3453.

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I still have one client who does this.  Maybe something's been updated recently but my understanding is that you need a 4-digit PIN to make an EFTPS payment.  A single EIN could have multiple PINs but each PIN will be linked to a specific bank account (I think I have at least two around here somewhere for my own account).  My client still pulls out the original "green ink" EFTPS Tele-file instructions every time and goes step-by-step: phone number, EIN, PIN, etc.  The phone menu options have changed slightly since then but for the most part it still works like a charm!

Another client we were able to get the login setup for BSO to submit W-2s earlier this year.  He was able to link his corporate SSA BSO account to his personal (i.e. Social Security Benefits) login, which seems to me like a security nightmare but, whatever.  I'm hoping the same login can be linked to the EFTPS account.  I remember setting it up for BSO was a huge pain involving several "an unknown error has occurred" issues and something like 8 different MFA codes sent to his phone and/or email before the process was complete (I wish I were exaggerating but it may have been more like 10 codes!).

I set up ID.me for myself last year.  It was awful and took 45 minutes, ending in a video call where I'm holding my license and passport up to my PC camera so someone on the Internet could verify it.  Boy did that feel like a great idea!  That also had at least two "unknown errors", one of which was fixed with just the "back" button but the other required a complete restart of the process.  So yay, fun.

Maybe this is just a ploy to get more late payment penalties.  They have to recoup all of that fraudulent ERC money somehow . . .

[PATAX]

@rbynaker Thanks for the information. Gloomy information, but thank you. Maybe they also have to recoup all of the fraudulent PPP money???

[PATAX]

I just put a message about this on our state organization private email list forum and I immediately received  response. The lady is very knowledgeable and active in the state group and she did not even know about this. I talked to her on the phone . There are some heavy hitters (not me, I'm a loser) in this organization and hopefully someone will have the right contact to get us information or get this extended, fixed, or whatever.

[dkh]

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@dascpa wrote:

Question - for those of us logging into the client's EFTPS will we have an issue as we're not the taxpayer?

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I didn't see an answer in this post......  Is there an answer to this.

I read about this last week on the EFTPS home page when I was making clients payments  but I've been busy with yesterdays deadline - didn't have time to worry about a new process for EFTPS. 

[PATAX]

@dkh we don't know. That was what the lady that I was just talking with on the phone was concerned about. If we use id.me to register for one client then what's going to happen when we try to register for another client? Is there going to be a problem? This is a big joke because like I said we are sending them money. You cannot get a refund from EFTPS. Is any fraudster going to pay someone else's taxes for them? What a joke.

[rbynaker]

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@dkh wrote:

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@dascpa wrote:

Question - for those of us logging into the client's EFTPS will we have an issue as we're not the taxpayer?

---

I didn't see an answer in this post......  Is there an answer to this.

I read about this last week on the EFTPS home page when I was making clients payments  but I've been busy with yesterdays deadline - didn't have time to worry about a new process for EFTPS. 

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Denise,

My (very limited) understanding is that both login.gov and id.me require multi-factor authentication.  So if you're with the client (or on the phone with them) and they can read you the code you can probably still proceed.  I would pick a few clients and try to log in on Thu/Fri of this week and see what happens.  Better to find out now than when it's mission-critical (with penalty exposure).  I'm mostly out of the payroll business so I met with my two small corp clients today to get things done before the "upgrade".

Rick

[dkh]

Have the client on the phone to give me a code - yeah, that's not going to work.  When I'm making a payroll tax payment at 10:30 at night I doubt the client will be available.  lol...😂

What a nightmare this is going to be.  I have 20+ clients this affects.   

Just another reason why I should retire.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

I am in the same boat you are.. I make payroll tax payments all times of day, night, and weekends.  Tomorrow, 10.19 we will see if we can use our own id.me for various log ins. If we can't I don't know what I am going to do. maybe call the payrments in. 

[rbynaker]

Look on the bright side, at least they didn't force this on us in the middle of tax season!  We got two whole days off before the next crisis.

But I agree, this is going to be a huge mess.  I don't think the powers-that-be understand how this process works for small businesses in the real world.  This was quietly added to the login screen of the EFTPS website where nobody will read it because they're busy trying to find out which sticky on their monitor has the right password.

Expect a flood of calls from clients and non-clients, "I can't get into my IRS account to pay my payroll taxes, is this something that you can do for me?"

Also expect the EFTPS phone number to be busy.  Even if you know what you're doing, it's not a quick process over the phone.  Everything you enter gets a follow-up confirmation prompt.  "You entered 9-4-1, if this is a federal tax deposit, press 1.  You entered six. thousand. five. hundred. forty. three. dollars. and. twenty. one. cents.  If this is correct press 1."

Or this will go off without a hitch and I will be happy to be completely wrong about it.

When it doesn't go well, reach out to your IRS Stakeholder Liaison so they can report up-the-chain what problems people are having.  We have a new liaison in VA and she's invited me to join the monthly IMRS Teams meetings.  There was no mention of EFTPS in yesterday's meeting.  Looks like for Area 3-Indiana that's Michael Mudroncik.  OH (for Jim) is Nichelle Gray.  PA/MD folks, you're in Area 2 and I only have the Area 3 name list but there are generic phone numbers/email addresses listed here:

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/stakeholder-liaison-local-contacts

They can't help with anything account specific but they can report systemic problems (say, for example, a significant percentage of small businesses are no longer able to remit payroll taxes.)

When you can't log in to your online account and don't have the right pin for the phone payment (or the phone number is always busy), does anyone know what alternatives are available at this point?  Looks like maybe you can make a same-day wire payment (I'm sure subject to bank wire fees) if you take this form to your financial institution:

https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/files/federal-tax-collection/SameDayPaymentWorksheet.pdf

Post back with your experiences and especially solutions.  I will be blissfully exploring the Blue Ridge Parkway when this goes into effect later this week so I'll have to read about what happened when I get back next week.

Rick

[IRonMaN]

"I don't think the powers-that-be understand how this process works for small businesses in the real world.'

A few years ago I was at a governmental accounting class.  The guy teaching the class was lecturing on the perfect world where all local governments needed to have a full staff of heavy weight accountants to make sure absolutely everything was perfect so the auditors would never have to even think about independence issues by having to make an adjusting journal entry.  The guy calls on me to grill me about how all of my clients must have those all knowing financial people on staff.  Believe it or not a lot of cities in northern Minnesota are small.  If the city clerk was formerly a bank teller before they made the jump to government accounting, they would have to be considered having a strong financial background compared to most.  The guy kept pushing about the issue and finally I had enough and told him the problem with governmental accounting is the fact that the people writing the rules have no clue that there is a difference between the makeup of the finance department of New York City and New York Mills Minnesota.  Ironwoman slowly sank under the table, flipping her name badge over thinking that a SWAT team would soon be arriving to our office to pull our licenses.  Meanwhile, in the back of the room I received a standing ovation from the other participants.  This whole EFTPS debacle is just another example of people making rules when they have no clue how the real world actually works.

[Jim-from-Ohio]

less than 24 hours and we see how bad it is.. also on the 19th, PTIN renewals may go live. 

[JRC]

Going back in time with the phone and prompts!   I have to find the Worksheets we used back then for when we scheduled by phone. Hmmmm???? Like back to 2005?

Wish me luck... lol

[Jim-from-Ohio]

about as bad as using the 8109 coupons and taking them to the bank with a check to make tax deposits.. that actually was not too bad. 

[PATAX]

@dkh I agree with you. It is not practical or feasible to have the client here especially when we originally have to do this MFA nonsense. They have their own businesses to run. Hopefully after the initial setup then we can do it on our own each week or month. Maybe eftps can email or text the code each time directly to us as the third party preparers, which is marked on the 941 return.

[PATAX]

@IRonMaN well said

[PATAX]

@JRC if we do have to use the phone option, are they going to require us to go through the password pin username nonsense, especially the first time we try to do this?

[jeffmcpa2010]

Reading this reminded me how long it has been since I made a deposit.......

[PATAX]

@jeffmcpa2010 if I can't do this MFA registration through EFTPS or file the returns through the phone option, then I'm going to tell the clients that they have to do the MFA nonsense themselves. I've already contacted some of them . And if I can't electronically make the payments each time then they will have to do it themselves also or go to a payroll processing Company. You made a good move when you got out of that business

[JRC]

PATAX: I remember we need the EIN# and PIN# not sure on any thing else.  Also the Phone Number has Changed from (1-800-272-9872) to (1-800-555-3453) since the last time I used this.  

[PATAX]

@JRC thanks for the information. Years ago when I first started I had a client that used to do that on their own each week. (They're closed now out of business). I don't think it was too bad once you get the hang of it. Maybe it will use the same pin from EFTPS.

[JRC]

PATAX: Googled EFT worksheet and Publication #4990 showed up "Payment Instruction Booklet".  

The worksheet is included.

[pkcpa]

Could you elaborate on how you linked your individual SS account with your BSO account?

At the BSO website my BSO UID/PW will not work. If at the BSO website I log in with UID/PW for my

personal social security account I just get my personal benefit  information- no opportunity to link the 2 accounts.

[JRC]

It was a headache to do but after many days and nites I think it was through the Site below:

PKCPA: Go to -->https://www.ssa.gov/bso/bsowelcome.htm

Select Employers "Log In"

"Sign in With SS Username"

I may be wrong because it was through trial and error.

[PATAX]

@JRC thank you for that information. I printed the whole booklet. It looks like it uses the same pin and Bank information from the EFTPS online system, IE it looks like it will transfer over from that. Hopefully.

[JRC]

It should cause "Back in My Day" that was the only option before this Internet and Web-Site became available...  It was done by phone or the Voucher and Check.

[rbynaker]

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@pkcpa wrote:

Could you elaborate on how you linked your individual SS account with your BSO account?

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Magic?

I was surprised that it worked.  From my aging memory, this is what my clients had to do:

Start here: https://www.ssa.gov/bso/bsowelcome.htm

Under Employers, click Log in, which takes you here:

https://secure.ssa.gov/RIL/SiView.action?LVL=7&URL=/RIL/bso

Both of my clients use login.gov to access their personal SSA accounts so click on that (presumably you could also do this with id.me if there's an account there instead).  Once you go through the login process it should authenticate you and then automatically bring you back to the BSO site where you can access your W-2 filings.  It somehow knew that the individuals were also the responsible parties for their respective corporations (presumably through the magic of SSNs).

If you encounter any problems along the way (forget/reset password or have to upgrade security), login.gov seems to "forget" that you're really just trying to log in to BSO and puts you somewhere else.  So then you have to log out of the somewhere else and start over with a fresh login attempt from the BSO site (but now hopefully with a correct password).

YMMV.  One client was able to verify identity online by entering a credit card number in his name, the other couldn't verify identity online so we had to wait while login.gov snail mailed her a letter with a PIN.

Clearly the people thinking this stuff up have never had any sort of ID theft protection training.  You literally either have to take a picture of your driver's license and/or passport and upload it over the Internet, or type in your credit card number on a site where you aren't buying anything.  Things you generally should never ever do.

I heard in the past they were able to authenticate through cell phone providers, maybe that's still an option somewhere but that has not been my recent experience.  They may have stopped that process because too many people have cell phones on group/family plans.

[PATAX]

There is a telephone tutorial system for filing EFTPS by telephone. That phone number is 1-800-572-8683. They will walk you through the steps on how to make the 941 deposit via telephone. It doesn't sound too bad.

[Channell6]

So do we think we can bypass this by calling in? Seems like they would still be asking to verify something.

[Just-Lisa-Now-]

So Ive got an ID.ME log in, I use it for EServices and my PTIN account. 

Can use that same ID.ME account for logging in to a clients EFTPS account and making a 941 payment for them?  Why are they making it so hard to send them money?  I just don't understand all this security crap.