Yup, in the end had to turn off Kaspersky file protection, force web install the 2019 and 2020 programs (which replaces the commgr19.dll and commgr20.dll) not startup the programs or restart the computer, go to Kaspersky and find the file exceptions part of the program and navigate to the two .dlls and identify them as not to be scanned, turn the file protection back on and then restart the computer.  After all fired up the communications work as expected and no Kaspersky auto delete or warnings.  It's always something...